Speaker 1
Welcome listeners. I’m so excited to have two guests this week and I have with me, Charlene polite, Corley, who’s Nielsen’s VP of Diverse insights and partnerships and who leads thought leadership and exclusive initiatives, which we’ll dig into. We also have Stacey D Arvis, the senior vice president of diverse intelligence. And initiatives at Nielsen welcome, Charlene and Stacy.
Speaker 2
Hi, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1
I’m so excited. So one of the things that y’all’s research and initiatives really drive home for organizations, especially organizations that might be a little confused right now, is the long term value of diversity. So I’d love just to center that and start there like what is the long term value of diversity.
Speaker 2
Well, I think especially for those who are trying to not just stay in business but grow their business, it’s hard to find net new customers without going into the folks who’ve been historically excluded. So if you are a brand or organization that’s looking to stick around long term, you have to figure out. How to engage with these different profiles of consume? And unfortunately it’s not a copy paste. You’re more effective when you tap into the different pieces of a consumer’s identity. So from our perspective and our research, every time we do studies from our team talking to consumers, the deeper of an understanding, the more nuance that you know either programmers. Content providers or creators or advertisers can pull into what they’re doing. It just finds it basically instead of just reaching someone, you find the opportunity to connect. With them, and that does help not just drive immediate business, but long term brand loyalty. And so we hear from our clients all the time. You know we’re all trying to do more with less when it comes to resources. And so for us this becomes just a no brainer of something that ohh by the way is a good thing to do, but it also is just a smart way to use your resources. That you take into account this inclusive data strategy in order to reach not just people in general, but new opportunities for your company, so.
Speaker 3
I think that you really underscored it with that. So Julie, to to what Charlene just said, it’s it’s increasingly we know that brands and marketers are looking for more performance based marketing. They’re bringing their budgets in, they’re looking for more ROI. And as Charlene pointed out, when you have you know these groups of customers who really haven’t have have the greatest. Both potential right and really haven’t necessarily had the opportunity to build an affinity for the brand. This is where your investment is going to get you 2X3X. This is where you’re going to get the bigger ROI. So not only does it make really great business sense, especially as you know budgets are being. Impressed. But it’s also a really great opportunity also to reach out and build loyalty with customers. You haven’t had a relationship with in the past.
Speaker 1
Yeah, it sounds like basic business go to new markets, you’re going to get more access to more customers, more growth opportunities than continuing to sell and market to the same. Audience you have historically. I I really appreciate the point Shirley made before we hit record about, you know, it makes sense to diversify your portfolio, diversify your investments, right? Why does that not translate to diversifying your team, diversifying your people? I’m curious why that concept is challenging for people if it. It’s obvious in other areas.
Speaker 2
Well, people are harder than money, right? So people are get a little bit more uncomfortable than money, a little bit faster. But yeah, I I think that’s sort of the thing that again keeps us very squarely around why we need to continue this work is. You know, people do understand diversifying their portfolio and so we should understand diversifying the people that we are reaching and how best to reach them. One of the perfect examples from our data on how this shows up is overall, you know, global marketers in our annual marketing report that Nielsen does global marketers are saying. We are. We’re putting the majority of our budgets into digital platforms. It’s all about digital platforms and performance metrics. We want to be. It’s a, you know, cheaper sort of entry point and we can get a really faster ROI. Right. But when we look at the data about how different consumers behave online, the average person that you’re probably talking to as an advertiser online is a person from a historically excluded community, whether that is an African American looking to connect with more nuanced stories. Or more accurate representation from their experience, or just a woman sports fan who’s trying to track the latest, you know, player happenings and scores because she can’t find them on TV. So digital has always been a place where these really nuanced communities to show up, and that doesn’t always show up in how brands are approaching messaging or campaigning to consumers. And so you have data from from Nielsen that shows, you know, black audiences are averaging about two hours more a week than audiences overall. Across digital spaces, Hispanic and Asian audiences averaging about an hour or more a week, and so again, the communities who have historically been left out at the forefront of driving these trends or driving engagement. But are you considering them or centering them in your approach? And so for us, it’s very not easy work, but it’s a one to one about. You might have to approach this differently. We have data to help you do that in an effective way, so. It is a little bit more challenging, but there are answers and solutions and so we’re happy to do that work.
Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s awesome. I I really appreciate that. Yeah, people are trickier. And as you pointed out, I mean, just looking, I always like to start with facts, right, that the fact representation is a fact. Diversity is a fact. Right. And the the buying habits, the media habits, like you said, those were great insights to show we have more opportunity to reach more people, they’re spending more time online, but you can’t reach them necessarily in the old traditional ways. You have to be more thoughtful and and specific to those audiences. So any Stacy specialized in. Hispanic audiences and. Would you mind? Walking us through kind of like what are some of those nuances if you want to, you know, communicate in an authentic, you know on brand way to a new audience and there’s great reasons why, you know, focusing on Hispanic audience is definitely a great growth opportunity. Curious what what do people need to keep in mind?
Speaker 3
Well, you know, one of the things that you just brought up to that, it makes perfect sense here as we’re talking about historically excluded audiences or even just in general the opportunity that presents itself with diverse audiences. And and and the demographics are quite different, right? So if you think about Hispanic audiences on average about 10 years younger than the total market. So of course leaning more digital, but also you have more opportunity to build loyalty and more time, right. So you’re not just getting an audience that maybe necessarily is more digital where you can perhaps have. You know more, you know, more efficient buying right and and higher ROI. But you’re also extending your runway with this consumer. So it’s again when we talk about 2X or 3X, that’s the opportunity. The Hispanic audiences tend to be younger, so they’re leaning more digital, and there are a lot of opportunities and ways to reach Hispanic audiences that typically are outside of perhaps, you know, straight forward general market advertising, which also brings in more efficiency opportunities. One of the things that I’ve been exploring with Charlene and she’s really been leading in the vision in this place is around. The emergence of. Of you know, sort of newer sports or sports that haven’t typically been high profile in general total market audiences. So think of things like of course soccer is you know is is tremendous here in the US But it’s actually growing among all audiences, not just Latino audiences. We’ve been talking about cricket and Charlene has some really great. Examples around some sports in in decidedly female sports that are new opportunities. Again thinking about efficiencies that really start with. You know, diverse audiences and end up growing and having influence throughout all audiences. 1 great example, too, was last summer’s UEFA Championship, which in July ended up being a huge narrative for all US audiences. While it was really, you know, started among Latino audiences, which is a soccer world. You know a World championship soccer tournament that. Took place last year between England and Spain, which ended up being a larger US narrative, so there’s a lot of really great, unique opportunities. Again as brands are looking for efficiencies that can take place and really start in diverse audiences and have, you know, quite a broad impact.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I’ll just jump on there and add one of my other favorite examples from sort, especially the sports case study. When we talk about seeing that growth happen and there’s a couple of points that we always like to make and one, it’s centering, one community doesn’t necessarily isolate others.
Speaker
So.
Speaker 2
And I think Stacy’s point around the growth in some of these, you know, huge championships is proof to that. One of my favorite examples is the messy effect, not only because my 7 year old loves him, but also because we literally saw it show up in our our audience measurement data with I think it was. Maybe his premiere game, but the Apple TV saw 32%. In their viewing of total minute viewing compared to the previous previous days with with no, no messy or no soccer involved. So you really see these one to one events about centering representation of a community or person or sport and then that really turning into. To dividends for different outlets. So it’s it’s really I think sports is such a great case study. We have examples of. That as well with the, you know, the Dodgers winning the World Series last year, and Otani really being such an essential part of that. And I think our data saw Asian American or 8 and HPI viewership go up 146% year over year, which is a little bit insane. To see you know, a sport that’s been around for a century or so, get triple digit growth. So and and again we just there’s I think sports has so many great examples of how powerful that can be when you see you literally get to root for your team and it brings other folks along.
Speaker 3
Yeah, jumping on to that one, the the example around, if I could just add the example around the Dodgers is such a great one, Charlene. Because not only did we see this huge increase among API audiences, we saw everyone really embrace this narrative. You know, Multiculturally specifically in LA, where I live, but also really just nationally. And another example of that success is Dodger.
Speaker 1
Now.
Speaker 3
Taking, you know Dodgers. I’m sorry. Major League Baseball taking them. There, you know, series openers to Tokyo and doing those. I mean, that’s really an international story, right? So they took their series opening to to Tokyo this year and the series one game this year had a significant increase over last year’s series one game, which was in Seoul. So really the, you know, the globalization of this narrative. Is another example of why we need to speak to diverse audiences here in the US for more than just. You know, bringing folks along, but really this is the way that sports and trends and narratives are moving. They are much more global and inclusive in nature.
Speaker 2
100% I I would just I would close that one out just by saying and it’s not just about the content and I think the opportunity for advertisers is also very clear. You know the consumer is really guiding you to say, Oh my gosh. I’m so interested in seeing this person, that person or this type of lifestyle or this type of struggle or. Experience in the content that I’m consuming that also carries over into how folks want to be centered and represented in campaigns so black and African American consumers in particular remain the most likely to buy from brands that feature someone from their identity group in their ads. And so again, it’s very simple things to do in theory. But with the right folks at the table with the right data involved in your strategy, these are new opportunities and ways to ensure growth.
Speaker 1
I love that I love those case studies and sports is so relatable. Relatable. I mean, it’s a great equalizer that everyone can kind of find a sport they’re interested in. And of course, like you said, want to see themselves reflected in it. And so how you craft that message to be inclusive in this global. You know, increasingly global audiences, I think about just. My own habits as a white woman getting into women’s sports recently, I mean where I live in Indianapolis, where the fever is OK, the Caitlin Leclerc effect has been very real here, but also my husband’s like a huge soccer football fan, as you would say in other parts of the world and. 1st. Yeah, yeah, the appreciation for all of these. I always think it’s so interesting to learn about. They learn about the players and where they’re from and historic players, Egypt. And so there’s just like, a really interesting humanization of it, too, for your fan base. So I I I think it it’s interesting to think about this cause a lot of times on my podcast and you know and things that I write and focus on workplace inclusion and we usually talk about it as internally you know employee training metrics, you know hiring processes etcetera. And I don’t think a lot of. Organizations, I mean, I’m sure they do. And you work with them, right? But. They don’t think as externally, especially right now because it’s like a little like, oh, we want to fly under the radar a little bit. But for organizations that I’m just going to guess, have a global audience, they want to grow, said audience. They want to stay relevant to future consumers. What are some things they should consider or maybe rethink about how? Will they market given all of this growth opportunity?
Speaker 3
Well, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll. I’ll start with saying that obviously. And we’ve been talking this this particular message for at least a decade, but obviously it’s important to have people internally that have a really good understanding of what’s happening externally, right. So the more you diversify your workforce, the more you’re going to be able to tap into unique narratives that. Perhaps you know might not be seen by folks that are not within specific community groups, so it’s more than just, you know, talent acquisition and development and growth of our people having the right people internally allow you to tap into these narratives that are happening externally. And it’s not just race and ethnicities, gender too, right, having. You know, we’re privileged on our team. We have this amazing Gen. Zier who’s really helping us tap into great narratives that otherwise I might have missed. You know, or Charlene or we we might, you know, not be Privy to. So it’s really more than just race and ethnicity. It’s across, you know, across the board having folks internally that can help you tap into more inclusive narratives externally. And actually, Charlene, if you wanna talk about the piece you just worked on very specifically around sinners, it’s a great example.
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I’ll. I’ll follow up what you’re saying just by, you know, so much of business is about solving problems. And if you’re looking for a way to really just simplify the benefits of diversity, it’s more problem solvers. It’s, you know, if you got 10 people in whooping, you know, all very similar ways of thinking, then you’re probably going to get similar ways to approach a problem. And once you start to diversify that, you might get some new ideas, you might get some new solutions. And so I really do love that around the concept of just bringing in more. Folks, when it comes to sinners in particular, you know the original movie that’s breaking all kinds of records from Ryan Coogler, you know, came out of the gate really with a really, you know, number one at the box office and a really impressive start. But coverage that kind of moved the goal post a little bit about like what success in Hollywood is. They’ve also surpassed that, you know, breaking even point. So some of that original analysis isn’t quite there, but. You know the the research that we put out was saying, you know, black audience in particular, it’s almost an insatiable desire to be represented in media. And I think it was something like over 60% of black audiences said, you know, yes, I’m going to, they’re 65% more likely to go and see. A movie opening. Weekend. But then when you pair that with really authentic. And nuanced and inclusive, you know, behind the scenes and on screen programming, it just turned into this really cultural effect that is resulting in bottom line results, right? There’s also really great research from the I think it’s the Hollywood Diversity report that shows that as casts, members got more diverse. So did the audience base. So really, how we and you know, we have research that kind of complements that showing that over 80% of audiences that we spoke to have at least some level of interest and content that features a different identity. Than their own. So all that to say that inclusive storytelling really just brought more folks along. And so you continue to see that. So with the critical success of these types of projects, but also now with the really dominant monetary success as well. So I think another lesson from that is also just as an an ally in storytelling, a lot of times. It’s just it’s. So much around the care that you give. Other folk stories. So not only is Ryan Kugler diving into the African American experience in, you know Mississippi sharecropping, but also the Mississippi Delta, Chinese or the Choctaw of that region and really giving a lot of attention to detail to those movies and some those are some of the things that are being most talked about. Right. Which this movie that’s supposed to be a Horror Story. Right. So again, there’s just a lot of great opportunities to bring other folks along and and again to really tap into. Point tap into unmet need that can return into long term brand loyalty.
Speaker 3
You know, and I I’ll, I if I can just add to that to close it out when you know I’m thinking about the next level. So you have content like this and in this case you’re talking about, you know going to the movies eventually though a lot of those content finds its way, most of it all of it right onto platform streaming platforms. So this creates an environment too to take it back to brands. This particular piece of content and.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Other content inclusive content creates an environment for brands. Where they can invest in that content, of course, right. Have their placement place their ads, be present in that content and that actually grows affinity with the consumers that are craving that content because it it it grows affinity for the brand. I should say right that when it’s within inclusive content and we’ve done a lot of research around consumers saying specifically when brands are. Present in content that reflects my identity, I’m more likely to buy that content. In fact, I think black audiences over index in that case, so you know to kind of segueing it back to business. It’s good for community. We create relevant stories. We build affinity, but then that creates opportunities for brands and others to leverage some of that through all of the places people consume. Content whether Julie you brought up earlier, the stories around sports. So it’s not just sports content, but there’s sports adjacent content that carry the narratives that are meaningful for any given community based on the POV. Well, those are environments that brands can be relevant for you. The same thing we’re talking about centers creating content where brands can step into that content through their advertising or adjacent advertising. When if this in this case when it’s on streaming, but you get the idea right and it creates more opportunities for brands to really be meaningful and present in the right. Cases consumers have also told us that they will if brands devalue and and don’t invest and don’t pay attention and aren’t present and relevant in narratives that are meaningful, that they’re actually less likely to purchase those brands as well. So there’s a lot of opportunities here from a business perspective to be inclusive and certainly. Inclusive narratives and storylines really are are best center of the opportunity.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. It’s so interesting. Yeah. To hear those kind of case studies. And and why wouldn’t you want to be where your potential customers are? Like, why wouldn’t you want to be participating in the narrative that they’re participating in already? It just seems so common sense, but I think what I’m hearing, at least from organizations that are hesitant with this new administration is. I’m afraid to speak up. Like what? If you know not everyone can be as brave as Harvard is right now. You know, there’s just this like. I don’t know it. It’s like hesitant or like this. We’re going to take a break. And so I would love your thoughts on like, why that’s obviously a terrible mistake to make. I’m like. What? What is something tangible? Like? What is something tangible an organization could do to, you know, being more inclusive to diversify their audiences and meet people where they’re at. And that was kind of a two-part question. But I’m just curious like, what can people do to lean through the fear? Right. Because this is a short term thing, like you said long term. Like you’re not in the game if you’re not participating.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it goes back to how we how you started the conversation and the facts are the facts. So regardless of, you know what the leadership or administrative strategy is, if as a company that is, you know, responsible to shareholders and doing great business that requires consumers and and how to best reach those consumers when with them retain their loyalty, remain competitive, bring new products to bear. This is a part of focus on how you continue to do that work and do it well. Period. And it’s very hard to do that without having a strategy that’s. Inclusive it just is part of what makes our economy so strong, so powerful globally is because we have so many different types of consumers, right? Who are, you know, driven to achieve their American dream. And so without those economic engines. Across all these different communities, that’s trillions of dollars right that we don’t have. So it’s in everyone’s best interest, I think, to continue to foster not just freedom but also economic. Freedom and find the ways to best meet those consumers where they’re at, and so it’s less about, I think, what the work is called. But to continue to just doing good work.
Speaker 3
Yeah, and I’ll I’ll add to that. To Charlie’s .34% of American buying power comes from diverse communities. That would be a lot of people to to not pay attention to, right or at least to not really invest into more than $7 trillion of buying power. It’s a lot of money. And to your point, Julie, earlier, when you said, boy, these are interesting. Case study. All the things that she means and have children and I have talked about are available through our Nielsen Diverse Intelligence series. We have those reports and additional diverse narratives to help make that case so that this investment can continue and again, not just because it’s the right thing to do, but because it actually has a very in. In every research piece that we’ve done out, ROI’s, a traditional market investment. So it just makes good sense. Those are all available on nielsen.com easy to research and we just released our Asian American report. In April in February, in the end of January, we released our Black consumers report. Our Hispanic report is coming out in September and so we have a regular cadence and we have a LGBTQ report this month in June, so regularly we have a cadence of research and information available to help make these the case.
Speaker 1
I appreciate the bravery. I mean, it shouldn’t be brave to report these facts. Like you said, this is just what’s happening. But you know, producing these reports and continuing to stand by them is a big deal right now. And so I just want to thank you both for your work. It’s important, it’s necessary. I personally I’m going to start shouting that stat about 34% like 34% of buying power comes from diverse communities. It just this doesn’t make sense as a circling back to where we started. This isn’t a long term strategy to. Completely disregard a / 1/3 of your potential consumers and so. We need to hear these facts. Leaders need to hear these facts and and stand strong and lean into them and most importantly connect connect with these communities that have been underserved and we all get better showing something that you said to you and and Stacy like they this reminds me of. Is, you know when you center someone, you don’t center one group, you don’t disregard or exclude the other groups. One of the things I learned in starting a nonprofit for conversations earlier with kiddos about inclusion is we need windows and mirrors, and heard that concept. It was so powerful for me when I learned this that so you need a window into other communities to see that are different than you, but you need the mirror. For you too. And that’s just something I’ve been thinking about recently is like, how do we have this balancing act of windows and mirrors? Because I think what people saw, especially in dominant group, was all the windows got opened and then the mirror was going. And it’s like, I didn’t feel like that’s what happened. But apparently there was something that happened. Or perception. And so this kind of balancing, that there’s room for all of us, right. And we all learn from each other’s stories.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And I’ll be clear in saying that centering someone who traditionally has not been at the center doesn’t negate, you know, anyone else’s story. But it can provide that window for the first time or that nuance for the first time that we haven’t been getting and that enriches everyone, everyone’s. Experience. So I I agree with the you know, with the analogy there about Windows and mirrors that sometimes it is time to speak up, sometimes it is just time to listen. And learn and both of those experiences can make us stronger.
Speaker 1
Awesome. It’s been so lovely to have you both on again. Appreciate your voices. The research will link to you in the show notes. I appreciate you just continuing to show up and that’s what we need. So if you’re listening and you don’t know how to show up Stacy and Shirley shared some amazing ideas on how to show up and share this information. With people at your workplace, if you’re getting a sense of hesitance on some of these things, this buying power this, I mean, we should do it for the right reasons, but that is, like you said, a responsibility to serve your consul. Numbers make sure people know about the real facts associated with this work before making snap decisions that are not going to be good long term. Well, thank you both for being on the show. I’m so thankful for your work.
Speaker 2
Thanks so much for having us. It’s been a pleasure.
Speaker 3
Thanks, Julie. Appreciate it.